RT @saturnsscepter: That Tropical Virgo to Sidereal Leo switch will never click in my birth chart lmaooo I've been looking at that shit for 10 years now waiting to feel it I see it in so many other Sidereal Leos but never in myself like not even a little bit. In his book, Astrology A Language of Life: Volume IV- Relationship Analysis , Robert P. Blaschke discussed some of his unique relationship analysis methods page 96: he wrote The easiest way is to just roll back to charting how the cosmos was charted by the ancients and go that route. Im very pleased with and thankful for the natal consultation I had with Patrick Watson; he provided super interesting. I guess my Tropical Sun Sign (Libra) is somewhat accurate, but it also says that I'm charismatic, outgoing, extroverted, and flirty, which is far from the truth. I am new to astrology and the accuracy of what he was able to predict about me and events in my past was astounding. He helped me understand some of the conflicts I have been facing with family and career, and even some of the challenges my children have been facing during recent transits. A bulk of the information given to me was about general astrology. How do you think mundane studies of planetary cycles through history works if not linking the right celestial event with the right earthly event? He's thorough in his explanations, knowledgeble and funny at the same time, and he doesn't leave any stone unturned when you ask specific questions. I couldnt have asked for a better astrologer to read my chart! These original constellations, like Gemini, Capricornus, Scorpius, and Cancer, are bands of stars, at various widths, that cluster along the sun's imaginary path around the Eartha path known as the ecliptic. I love this explanation of the, sidereal vs tropical debate. Roughly 2000 years ago, tropical Aries aligned with sidereal Aries, and while ancient astrologers were to some degree aware of precession, they didnt concern themselves with their differences since they were still small in their own time. He talks about two intersecting circles, one with the motion of the Same and one with the motion of the Other. The tropical zodiac remains valid because it was born in a particular era whose imprint remains relevant throughout all time, just the same way as an individuals natal chart is imprinted upon their character throughout their entire life. I propose that the reason the northern hemisphere is not arbitrary and instead the proper orientation for our planet insofar as seasonal correlations with the equinoxes and solstices is that the northern hemisphere faces in the direction of the solar systems movement through the galaxy. Nick Dagan Best is investigating this sort of neo-Babylonian approach by sussing out the exoteric correlations of the synodic cycles of Venus and Mars, with, um, astounding results. I had a reading yesterday with Patrick, and it was one of the most helpful, thorough and on-target readings of my life. I never knew about some interpretation of my natal placements but Patrick described. Ive been pondering this because ive been experimenting with both chart designs for both natal interpretations and for timing life events. Tropical is more akin to a movable do, in that the order stays the same even though the starting point can change. 2) Timing recommendations provided by this electional service are based on Patrick Watsons opinion of astrological factors and are not guarantees of desired results, and are not intended to contradict, supersede or be in any way a substitute for the advice of qualified professionals in other fields such as medicine, law or finance, etc. What does this say about what they could mean? This is tricky because it would mean that on a theoretical basis they would have to be formally severed, and it may mean past results with each zodiac might be put into a different context, but it wouldnt necessarily make either wrong and would be far less disruptive than invalidating either zodiac. July 22, 2021: Sun enters sign Leo (120 degrees) Aug 22, 2021: Sun enters sign Virgo (150 degrees) Sep 22, 2021: Sun enters sign Libra (180 degrees) Oct 23, 2021: Sun enters sign Scorpio (210 . Imagine the Earth is like a ship in an ocean. Aries begins where it is visible. You can see how the stars nearer to us can appear to travel faster than those further away. However, on longer time scales, the tropical zodiac is stable and its the constellations which vary wildly, destabilizing the sidereal zodiac. That they were actually able to calculate this gives us a clue as to how advanced the ancient Vedic civilization was in terms of mathematical and astronomical knowledge. He provided so much information and I feel not only INCREDIBLY pleased with my reading, but that I sincerely have been equipped with so much more knowledge about astrology, my own life and what to expect in the upcoming years. After all, one sky seems to have worked out quite well thank you very much. Its important to clearly understand thedifference between the two primary systems of astrology in use today: the Vedic or sidereal, and the Western or tropical. These events would be concurrent with when tropical astrologers attach significance to cardinal ingresses. After a long period of axial precession, theyve tried to make it work, theyve gone to counseling, theyve tried reigniting that old spark, but its undeniable that theyve drifted apart. The stars that make up our constellations are moving around the galaxy, so stars in one constellation are all at different distances and levels of brightness. The June solstice is 0 Cancer. He has a logical approach to astrology that truly connected, and he has inspired me to learn about myself through my chart. I really enjoyed my reading and felt that I learned so much in just 1 hour. I can share more of this if youd like. Even the horoscope of the magazines or the books with the "predictions" of the year are. Another important point is - 3,000 yrs. Its been somewhat of an identity crisis for me, but I like the idea of archetypes vs incidental. They can both be right because they are about different things., Those new names for the signs are great! ( unknown time ) Birth city: ( Enter coordinates manually ) On smaller time scales, the tropical zodiac drifts backward against the backdrop of the stars which appear to stay fixed. 4) I accept Patrick Watsons right to refuse service and provide a full refund on the basis of my questions validity or other ethical concerns. In short, the Moon looks outward from itself and finds inspiration and . Tropical Leo would still be ruled by the Sun in any age, but depending on what stars are in tropical Leo in a given age would change ones experience of certain degrees in the sign, and consequently the overall impression we might have of the sign in a given era. "I have read many articles which describe the action of Pluto in tropical Virgo. In terms of tropical vs sidereal I am quite convinced that Jaimini must have used the tropical zodiac, because the four textbook examples that we have here are seen in the tropical . This has been a long time coming. Both systems, after all, are looking at the same phenomenon of the planets moving through the sky, but from different vantage points. Highly, highly recommended! If it's Cancer 28 in the sidereal zodiac in 1951, it will still be Cancer 28 in 2023. Western astrology mostly uses the tropical zodiac, in which 0 Aries is fixed at the vernal point. The most common one is Lahiri. Eventually their resistances are broken down and theyre able to contain a broader, more all encompassing viewpoint. The cost of one zodiacs triumph would be the invalidation of a lot of the work that half of all astrologers have done with one of the zodiacs for hundreds or even thousands of years, which still doesnt really help the case for astrology. Optional: Various Ayanamsas. He's a really cool guy with great character. This makes some sense due to the relative vantage points in terms of distance. They have the same names as sidereal signs because they used to coincide, but to be properly distinguished they should have different names. Differences between both zodiacs. One obvious one would be take the 12 year transit return of Jupiter. I soaked up all the info that he had to offer, and as I started learning more about the techniques he uses, I thought more about possibly getting a reading. This would make the sidereal zodiac the grander circle of the Other, since the stars are irregularly scattered with chaotic trajectories, making sense with my theory of the sidereal zodiac representing whats archetypally incidental and ephemeral for a particular time and place. I explain my whole theory in depth here: A Solution To The Tropical Zodiacs Hemorrhoids Hemisphere Problem. Not only does he exhibit an extraordinary depth of knowledge, skill, talent, professionalism, and passion in his craft, as well as demonstrate a notably strong capacity to pinpoint the precise timing of imperative events in peoples lives via Zodiacal Releasing & other beautiful techniques, but his approach achieves the ideal balance of kind sensitivity and 100% honesty. Vedic Astrology, despite its pantheon of Gods and attendant mythology shoots the lights outI have to ask myself why this would seem to be so? You wont be disappointed! The fundamental differences between them speak to the unique perspectives derived from them, rather than representing the same thing. However, to further complicate matters there are several commonly used ayanamshas that vary by nearly 2 degrees from one another. You would be Virgo ascendant, if at the time of your birth, the sign Virgo was rising from above the ground, in a way similar to the rising of he sun. For instance, your Sun may move from Aries to Pisces in your Vedic chart, but you also may still have three planets in Aries, or Mars in Aries. If we think the astrological phenomenon is real and has at least some exoteric correlations, then we have to be able to account for its operation in other times. An easy way to do this in your head, if the planet's degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. Over the years, the stars have slowly changed location relative to Earth, which means . i just had my chart rectified by Patrick. Sidereal astrology ignores this and continues to use the Fixed Stars in the same way as they were 2,115 years ago in 100 BC. This system divides the year into 12 equal parts, assigning one sign of the Zodiac to each part. Patrick is not just skilled at chart interpretation; he thinks like a scientist, continually working out techniques that emerged from recent translations, which, in my opinion, always contain an interpretive dimension, particularly 2,000 years beyond the writing of the text and the culture within which the text was produced. From the tropical perspective, this could be done by simply considering which stars are present in each tropical sign, and forming an image with the stars that matches the nature of the planet ruling that sign. For instance, when you were born on 10th September 1994, your actual and true Sun sign is Leo (sidereal), and not Virgo (tropical). In your article you say Sidereal moves??? God made no mistakes there! This is really just a different spin on the all-time least convincing justification in astrology It works for me, even though very few astrologers are actively using both zodiacs. I was hooked - watched the videos, read the blog; all of which I found all to be super interesting and in my opinion pretty funny. Obtain a copy of your Western chart, if you dont have one already. Each zodiac sign is given 30 of space in the tropical zodiac (12 x 30 = 360), so that the signs always match the seasons: Aries to . Venus is the atmakaraka and thus in the svamsha. Neither would be wrong because its true that we are in a ship in the ocean and that there is an ocean with a ship in it. He also helped me realize how my passions and interests appear in my chart, and gave me advice on how to anticipate incorporating passion/purpose and find a career. Thank you for this! His interpretations align with my life themes greatly. His reading for me was profound and answered many questions I had about trends. THANKS SO MUCH, PATRICK! In some sense, one is eternal and regularly recurring, the other is incidental and ephemeral. The sidereal system is based on the current position of the constellations and the stars while the tropical astrology system is based on where the stars were around 0 AD. There are two Zodiac systems that correspond to the two schools of astrology tropical and . And thus, we come to the origin of the name tropical: the tropics. Its just astronomical fact. Western astrology makes use of the tropical zodiac, an evenly-split 360 circle around the heavens, with the 0 Aries point beginning at the spring equinox. Birth city: ( Enter coordinates manually ) There are different anayamsa which measure the difference between the beginning of the tropical and sidereal zodiacs. An easy way to do this in your head, if the planets degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. (He was also super nice to me, a non english speaker. More importantly, Patrick was fun, personable, and very good at explaining the complicated aspects in a way that made sense. All the stars revolve around the galactic center, which is currently around 3 sidereal Sagittarius (Lahiri)/27 tropical Sagittarius. Not only do the constellational images seem to be informed by a planetary ruler rather than the other way around, but the constellational images themselves reference tropical eventssuch as the Scales for Libra, where day and night are balanced at the September equinox. In tropical and sidereal astrology, they break up the constellations into equal sections that are 30 degrees each. This mathematical difference between the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs is called the ayanamsha in Sanskrit. "Tropical Zodiac" is the one you've probably already heard of. Coinbase automatically converts the USD price into the current exchange rate for currently accepted cryptocurrencies: Bitcoin (BTC), Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Dai (DAI), Dogecoin (DOGE), Ethereum (ETH), Litecoin (LTC) and USD Coin (USDC). Vedic or sidereal astrology calculated the the Sun at 6 degrees 03 minutes of Pisces at the Spring equinox in 2003. The circle of the Other was the direction the planets traveled. By Vaughn Paul Manley, M.A. interpretations is A-MAZ-ING! The essential qualities of the signs of the zodiac do line up with the Sun passing through the seasons. When this person is an astrologer, schooled by skilled astrologers such as Chris Brennan and Nick Dagan Best, I feel very fortunate to have happened upon him. Tropical astrology uses the Spring Equinox as the point when the Sun moves into the 1st degree of the sign Aries. I knew that if I was ever going to get a reading it had to be with an astrologer that practiced and worked with the Hellenistic techniques - the most accurate techniques I believe are around today in the astrological world -. In the long term however, the consequence of aligning the sidereal zodiac to a single point is that the sidereal zodiac would no longer be anchored to the stars in constellations but more properly to the galactic axis. Your tropical zodiac sun sign is Leo, the Lion, if you were born between July 24 - August 23. What I find is that I can shoehorn my experience and objective knowledge of myself into Tropical. In order to honor their new paths, we need to set the terms of divorce, including name changes, division of assets and a custody agreement. . Western astrology is historically based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos (2nd century CE), which in turn was a continuation of Hellenistic and ultimately Babylonian traditions.. Western astrology is largely horoscopic, that is, it is a form of divination based on the construction of a horoscope for an exact moment, such as . The tropical zodiac, therefore, is a symbolic system based on the Sun/Earth relationship and is oriented to the seasons. Tropical astrologers might have to rethink the meaning of fixed stars. Patrick was professional, funny, and sensitive to the topics of our discussion. My website: http://www.astrologykrs.comHoroscope consultation- http://www.astrologykrs.com/Shop.htmlThe debate of correct ayanamsa in astrology Lahire vs. K.. A Way To Reconcile the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs. The article does not mention that there is only one recognised moving ('tropical') zodiac whilst there are many fixed (inaccurately called 'sidereal') zodiacs, several of which however are within about 3 degrees from the Babylonian practice of a fixed fiducial Star axis from Aldebaran (15 Taurus) to Antares (15 Scorpio) as mentioned by the 20th century Irish astrologer and author . from now, the individual born on Sep 7 would definitely be Virgo as per the Tropical Zodiac. Virgo Asc Cancer Sun, Venus, Mercury 11H Capricorn Moon 5H Virgo Mars 12H Taurus Jupiter, Chiron, MC, SN 9H Scorpio Uranus, NN 3H Leo Saturn 11H Sagittarius Neptune 4H Libra Pluto 2H. Keep up the great work! I had a general chart reading today with Patrick. I continue to read your work with interest. As per Vedic astrology - Sidereal zodiac, the individual is a Leo. The Suns path also defines which stars are considered to be part of the constellational zodiac. TROPICAL: Virgo svamsha. The sun is in Virgo on or about August 23rd to September 22nd under the tropical zodiac and September 17 to October 17 under the sidereal zodiac. As tempting as it is for tropical astrologers to reference constellational images, its problematic on a conceptual level. Here is Part 2 - which includes some very helpful animations. Needless to say, Patrick is a true pro at it. The second was reading tropical book descriptions for the previous sign (say, Cancer instead of Leo) when switching from tropical to sidereal astrology. If you want to get the exact position of the planet down to the minute then get out a calculator and calculate the exact ayanamsha of the year and month you were born. However, the systems devised by the hellenists and vedics really dont work at all when you increase precision. If you didnt hear this kind of talk coming from astrologers, youd think it was coming from skeptical trolls mocking astrology. I was shy, caring, self-defensive. 25 Feb 2023 23:31:08 Libra: November 4 to November 22. I really agree astrology needs some freshening up. Heres how the constellation of Leo has changed/will change over 200,000 years, from 50,000 BCE to 150,000 CE: Fixed stars? This may also bring us to question whether the constellational images established long ago by Babylonians and later featured figures of Greek and Roman mythology still apply to our modern global society of today (they still do), or if we could project our own myths and images onto the stars? There are 12 zodiac signs (constellations) in these two systems: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces. What it means to be a tropical sun sign Virgo and a sidereal sun sign Leo.Aries/Pisces: https://youtu.be/WRxYdrq30LQTaurus/Aries: https://youtu.be/bgxRNxCX. As an example, as per the Western - Tropical zodiac, a person born on September 7 is a Virgo. In other words, the stars are further away than our Sun, which is the closest star. and motifs in my life. 7 Tropical Balance will like to pair and agree with anyone, under the "rule of a seducing Venus . He asked great questions and explained why he saw things the way he did. And fagan/bradley for divination. I dont know that anything went wrong. Obviously, our civilization was meant to have both zodiacs. He is a genius that has studied Tesla, Stienmetz, Heaviside, Maxwell and is known to be the top expert on fields/magnetism/physics and metaphysics. Tropical (green) and sidereal (orange). If I were to say who am I in the universe today, it probably would be a LEO ASC. Really nice writeup! However, if you asked someone in India whats your sign? they would likely assume you mean their Moon sign, since Vedic astrology is a Moon-based system and its primary predictive systems are based on the Moon. How can sidereal and tropical exist alongside each other today? From this point of view, tropical is fixed while the stars move. i was all-in on tropical astrology but over the last year, i began to shed my ego. About 5 years ago I switched to Tropical Vedic Astrology. 3)Prices are provided in USD. The actual point in space that is Leo 22 in 1951 in the tropical zodiac will be Leo 23 in the tropical Zodiac in 2023. There is not, as far as I am aware, a compelling sidereal rationale for planetary rulerships. From that point of view, the stars are fixed while tropical moves. Ayana means precession and amsha means part or portion. The term refers to the number degrees difference between the Spring Equinox and the 1st degree of Aries. Astrologer:. Its a cop-out. With these people you'd noticed they're over thinkers because their mindset is to always pay close attention to details. From this perspective, when we look at the stars through the tropical zodiac, were looking at how whats incidental and specific to an era in time relates to whats unchanging and archetypal. For instance, the Sun passing into Aries conveys the qualities of Spring active, energetic, vigorous creative new life etc. By my purchase of this horary service I acknowledge and agree to the following terms and conditions: 1) I do not hold Patrick Watson to be legally liable for any circumstances or consequences arising from his analysis of my question. This is what I think the relationship is like between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. unique with my sidereal. How can modern astrologers using the sidereal zodiac and the tropical zodiac both be right? I think the answer to this question is inherent to the astronomical properties of the tropical and sidereal zodiac. Without the aid of telescopes or modern technology they calculated that the orientation of the equinoxes to the fixed stars precedes or moves backwards through the zodiac at a rate of about 50.3 seconds per year, or about 1 degree every 72 years. I see this all as tools and a means to an end. This phenomenon is known as the Precession of the Equinox. Scorpio: November 23 to December 6. Now here's where it gets complicated. Likewise, you could take any developmental pattern and transpose the zodiac.